This is a recording of my live "Safety: The Gateway to Engagement" session conducted at the Tennessee Safety Conference on 14-August-2023.
This is a recording of my live "Safety: The Gateway to Engagement" session conducted at the Tennessee Safety Conference on 14-August-2023.
Thank you for being here, I get a lot of great choices, and you chose me. I'm very thankful for that. So I'll do my very best to make it worth your time. Now we'll see if so we're going to talk about engagement. I'm actually hoping to have some engagement. So if you have your phone, you're going to be using it. If maybe, we'll see. How about that. So all you got is hold your camera up, and I have a poll there, and you're gonna have to be fast. Too slow. The good news is, is once you're into the, it should advance with you once you're into my polls. So if you get in there the first time, you're going to be okay. Hey, look, some of you i Hey, I see, I see answers. That's good. Yeah, so you can keep that open in throughout this presentation. I want your engagement, when That'd be terrible for me to come and talk about engagement, like not do anything with you. Next, that's my next time. That's gonna be fun. I'm gonna just lecture the hell out of it. All right. So let's keep going. So I like to start everything off with two messages because of my safety and HR background. Now, I want to start with a safety message, but also one in a diversity message. So my safety message is pretty simple. We've been getting some rain, tons of it. So I'm going to use the one Turn Around, Don't Drown. I still, even my own child, decided they wanted to take my golf cart and look around at all the water that was flowing. Guess who got stuck? Yeah, of course. And then who has to pull them out? Turn Around, Don't do it. There could be worse things to getting stuck with the floods that we're having diversity message. I am a firm believer that we are certainly more than what we look like on our surface. I am a big fan right now of learning more about neuro diversity. And understanding how we think in the process of our thinking is a very inclusive technique. Because we all think different, we all have different backgrounds, we've all come from our own experiences in inclusiveness is not just about religion, or race or sexuality. It's more than that. It's all those things, and more. So I encourage you that is you have your inclusive environment that we don't forget about those things. So why are we here? I want to hopefully give you some information that I've researched and learned and experimented with, about how do we create engagement in the workplace. And I believe that because engagements about people, the easiest way is through safety because there's nothing more people based on safety. So we're going to talk about engagement but we're going to talk about doing it with a safety first process. So what is engagement? Why do we use safety and then at the end, I'll give you some some practical applications for the conduct participate, ask questions, all those great things because it's only going to be as good as us working together here. Expectations and roles let's just have some fun. Let's learn a few things together. Tell me a little bit about you. So the second poll is I just want to understand like why are you here? Are you government are you private? Are you consulting did somebody just did you just show up because that sounded like it was fun never done safety in my life saw conference online decide to join in actually some human resources people sweet welcome in there he goes. The mystery I just love safety love it. All right site. So site safety, corporate SEO a good mix. They're fantastic. bounced around. How many years of experience do you have? Not trying to type you in any way. I just want to see who I'm talking to. Because I can make Boomer jokes. I can make millennial jokes we can we can make fun of anything you want to make fun have. I like to pick the group that's not here the most. So that's what we're going to make fun. of oh, oh, wow. Awesome. We'll start off with a success story. I was working in a warehouse environment ecommerce. And there was a supervisor named John. John finally got the promotion he wanted. He got to come today's shift on the prime shift. The problem is is when you first come to the new shift, what do you get? You get the word where you get the worst department to hate. And you get the one that nobody else everybody else promoted about that department. You're going into it. And he walks into this department is pretty disgruntled, rightfully so. And all of a sudden, because they're disgruntled, what does that lead to leads to safety issues. Everything Leads to safety issues. If I'm angry, it's because of safety. If you're working me too hard today, it's because of safety. It happened. So suddenly, he has the most first aid cases of anyone but like seven times, it was ridiculous. I'd never seen anything like the amount of people that he had in my first aid area every day. And he comes to me and he says, Mark, what on earth is going on? I said, Well, you're paying for neglect. For the last person neglected this group for long enough, you've inherited it, good for you. And now you've got to turn it around. And the only way you're going to do it is you got to go big. Or you got to try to go as big as you can to figure it out. So what John did was, he was on the plant floor between breaks lunches, anytime people were coming in and out of his department, he was in their way. Talking about safety. Are you going to be saved today? I know you will be. What do I need to fix for you today? I'm going to fix something for you. What's it going to be? And he would do it? Now the one thing just sit there and talk about it? And point? Oh, yeah, I'm gonna fix that. And then three weeks later, Oh, you want me to fix that? Sorry. John was fixing it. He was getting it done. He wore me out asking questions. Mark, can I fix this? Is that a real safety issue? Can I do that? What can we do about this? It wasn't just a spur of the moment thing. He kept this going. Now he tapered it a little bit because the excitement was good. But he kept doing it. He kept engaging. He kept talking to his people. You know what's interesting, he fixed his safety issues. All of a sudden, his productivity improved. His quality rate of defects being shipped to the customer improved. And he had the lowest cost like his people showed up for work. He didn't have to worry about finding people, like, oh, I need to borrow somebody from your department because nobody showed up today. Why? One he sustained it. Now, it's easy for me to go, Hey, for two days, I could do that. He did it for like weeks and weeks and weeks. And he kept doing he never stopped. Now again, brought it back a little bit. But he never stopped asking. And he never stopped doing for his people. And eventually, that engagement led to all kinds of rewards for him and ultimately got promoted to something completely. I mean, he went on up versus just within a linear scope. But that's a success story. It's not impossible to have your team doing something that engages your people. So well. And I would argue there's no better reason than safety. And I'll get to that. One or two words, if I say the word engagement, what does that mean? It means a wedding is coming up. Getting married? So perfect. You're absolutely right, every one of those words. So true involvement, participation, communication, action. We'll talk about that here in just a moment. Why does engagement matter? There's the difference between putting an effort and putting in time, I can sit at my desk for 10 hours, I'm the king of sitting at my desk for hours, am I the king of getting stuff done depends if I like you or not plain and simple. Working on the business versus working in the business, we can work all day in the business is to engagement that we start to actually work on the business and improve our processes. So we talked about a continuous improvement style process. If we're just busy all the time maintaining we never get better. This is my favorite. There's two types of people. And you can see it you can draw the line and when you look out to your people or your supervisors. There's those who say all I want to do is not get caught doing something dumb. And you got those out there who are making a few mistakes, but they're really innovating and they're okay with making that mistake and driving forward. Generally speaking, that's the culture of your site, though. You might get the innovator will be crushed under your culture, because culture can eat everything for breakfast. As Peter Drucker says, your process will be eaten for breakfast if your culture isn't there. So the idea is, we need success seekers and we need your culture to be success seeking in a safety professional. Sometimes we can be the one that sticks her neck out and goes hey timeout. That's actually a good idea. Let's just try it. Please can we just try it and then we can move on? Sometimes they need that help. Sometimes they just feel alone, I found that this John found out also he didn't want to be alone in what he was doing. And then finally being busy versus being productive. We can look busy, but are we really getting anything done? That's the difference. That's what we're talking about with engagement and getting things done. Let's define engagement. Engagement is the involvement and enthusiasm of your team. So are they they're involved, because they're doing something for you. They're producing, they're working as a safety professional, you're involved. You're doing things every day, taking the phone calls, doing all kinds of work, you're the involvements? No problem, we got that all day long. Because we want to get your paycheck, you're going to be involved. It's the enthusiasm. That's the lack of engagement. How many of you and be honest, you won't you stand it for if I was to stand at the front door of your site, and watch your people come in every day? Would I be excited to be there? Or would I want to cry and go home? I've been there. I have sat there and watched people come in the door and thought, what miserable life am I living. And I think if like Willy Wonka, and he's singing that land of pure imagination, he opens the door and supposed to be this beautiful place you opened up, it's like a factory floor, and people are sobbing and bleeding. And you go, Oh, that's not the match. Sorry, not very engaging. So here we go. Your whole take your whole workplace and give me a scale. This is anonymous. I'm not going to send it to your dear so and so. This is where we have our greatest opportunity is how do we generate enthusiasm for safety? You would think it'd be simple. We would hate to see someone get hurt, get killed have pain. That's that doesn't seem to work. So we've got to go beyond. So you gave me a two points of what's your barrier? Supervision, management culture. None a pizza parties are started right after the pandemic. Really. Moral paralysis just kind of started going down? Were you guys working during the pandemic the whole time? Changes from? Turnover, that's a good one. All these reasons? It's not one answer. That's everybody wants the one answer safety solution, you go to those safety seminars. And that's my personal pet peeve when I go to a seminar, and they're like, this is the one you do my approach, and you win every time it's the best ever. The truth is, we got to take safety from a lot of directions. Not one, not one thing is going to make it work better. But if we start chipping away at all of it, we have a better chance. So let's talk about empathy. Because empathy is a key component of our enthusiasm. It's also a key component of engagement. From the APA. It's an understanding a person from his or her frame of reference, rather than one's own. So you are looking at a situation from someone else's point of view. Real quick, tell me about your cut. If you were just to take it empathy, how are you as an organization? Because I'll tell you safety starts with empathy. Because if if I'm one of those cold hearted people that I'm just like, profit, you know, a few dead bodies pay for that, Oh, get insurance for that. No, no, we start with the fundamental idea that a human being is something more special than your equipment that you're building, and then we can move forward. Kind of man. So my favorite part of that definition, is the idea that although you can an empathy does not entail motivation. I love this. You can be empathetic, it's your choice. If you're going to do something today, if I can put myself in your shoes and I can say you know what, you are having a problem. That job you're doing sucks back to the office. Make sure you hit your numbers, things. That's not the way we need to do it. But it's not innate to the human body to our behaviors to take that action. So we have to force it I'm gonna skip that one, we're gonna keep going because we started slowly. I don't want to like waste a lot of time. Let's put it together. Engagement is enthusiasm. So we got the one part of engagement sealed in, we need enthusiasm. Empathy is understanding feelings, enthusiasm, a strong feeling of excitement. So what's our goal? We want to build that collective enthusiasm. So the rest of what I'm going to talk about, I've kind of bounced around, what I'm going to get you to hear in just a moment is how do we build back collective enthusiasm? How do we build some excitement around the whole safety process for our team, our supervision, even for ourselves, as a safety professional, sometimes we're alone. And there's been many days, I've had to go into my office, slam the door, and just, you know, kick something, or beat something. Because I was alone, I felt alone. And I couldn't generate enough excitement for me to come back out of the office that day, much less come out there and do it for everybody. But we know what we're allowed to feel that way. And we can come out of it and we can be more productive. Workplace empathy, is employee engagement. First to collaboration and communication, that is organizationally driven as a safety person as a consultant. Is anyone else who is in the safety world or HR world? We have some control over that. But how many times have you thought you've delivered the message? You spoken about it? You emailed about it, you put it in the plant newspaper, you put it on the TVs in the facility? And then you go out there and go, did your supervisor talk to you about that new thing we're doing? Does my supervisor talk to me? I don't think so. If we don't have a commute, an organization that's willing to have that in the first place, we're kind of starting in a harder place. Not impossible, but harder. The next part is empathy. We drive empathy. And I put the olive branch on here. How many? I don't think it would be you. Because your safety people. How many times have you heard your management or, or someone in supervision go those people. They just keep getting those people, especially an accountant, any accountants in here? Yes, finance people. Just look at the spreadsheet and go those people in their injuries, those people in their PPE, those people in their clean water that they need to drink. I actually had that discussion just a few months ago with a with a finance person, we want to buy bottled water, and they're like, Well, how much bottled water? Do you think they would actually drink? I don't care. Honestly. It starts with us as the organization, extending the olive branch because I have never seen it work any other way. The distrust is usually the breakdown is the organization isn't doing something for me. And to be truth be told, I would say 99% of the time. That's true, that there are outstanding work orders. There's outstanding problems or outstanding ideas that management has just stuck their fingers in their ears and went lalala and it never gets done. I was working in working at a nucular side. It was a very adversarial union environment. And had been for years well known. I mean, I knew going in, because they'd been on the news a number of times with us adversarial and I was warned we got going in first safety committee meeting. Oh, you don't let them push you over. Don't let them get a hold of you. Even like corporate PR don't promise anything. What am I doing? I go into court in a safety committee meeting. So I walk in I say guys, you know, not gotten along a lot. I'm new. Let's play a game. That's it. I don't want any new issues brought? Or actually it wasn't me. Let me take a step back. Is this funny or this way? This is the true story. I wanted it so that we wouldn't bring any new issues like I wanted only let's talk about only things that you hadn't gotten done. And let's push it through. Well, the plant manager wanted to deliver that message. So he came in and unfortunately, he was a bit more brash a little bit more. And now you guys know I'll fix anything for you. And if you got anything you need fix you come to me right now. All of a sudden work orders flip, flip, flip, flip on and on. I was like, oh boy, we've been served up here. No tell how many safety coded safety work orders. Not done. That Olive Branch was gone. We burned it, thrown it away. and stomped on it somewhere because they needed stuff done and we weren't doing. And we were shown that very firmly that we hadn't done it. So it starts with the empathy before we build before we are a team working towards safety, there has to be some proof of trust. And I call it proof of trust, because they've come to you and said, Hey, this is broken. Now, let's say for instance, in that same environment, in that union environment, there was a safety concern, there was not enough Pepsi machines compared to coke machines, I kid you not, that is not a safety concern. And I was fine saying, that is not a safety concern. We will not talk about that again. But you come in and say, Hey, by the way, that flange has been leaking for two months, and it's, it's hydrofluoric acid. That's the safety issue, we should fix that today. So we talk about trust. This is human nature. So this is your workplace, this is your home. This is your family I'm giving, here's a life tip for your significant other your children, anyone you interact with, if you think you're building trust, is probably 10 times greater than what they're feeling for you. You're doing it, you're like, Oh, I'm doing such great work for you. I bet you love me so much. And you trust me so much, they fill about a 10th of that your deposits are a lot tinier than you think they are. But if you ever have to break your trust, it's huge, huge. The moment they can call you out on a breach of trust, and you don't go, oh, man, I really goofed, I'm really sorry. Or if you try to cover it up or smooth it over or whatever that deposit is out, you're running the piggy bank dry. So the key with engagement is that we've got to be very, very careful about our withdrawals. And we've got to make sure we're putting in very significant deposits. How do we do that? One is through those accountability deposits, I hope you have a mechanism for tracking, I hope there's some I don't care if it's an Excel spreadsheet, if they're giving you ideas, if your team has ideas, if you have ideas, and you're tracking them. That is wins everything, even the smallest, like if you put a new piece of tape down, to show where to walk, that's a win in the Trust Bank, it may be tiny, it's a win. If you're like me, you'll take any when you can get it anytime. You've got to be dependable and reliable. And this is our supervision our management team. And this is where I think we, especially when we get higher up into senior management, we have some issues is with this idea of quantity and quality. Because when safety gets bad, we have a blitz. And then we wait. And then we Blitz. And then we wait. That's not a continuous improvement cycle. That's just repeating yourself over and over again. And that's the definition of insanity. We have to get better and we have to hold it that requires the same amount of energy. If it takes me this much energy to get here, I've got to hold it. It's like driving a car, I take my foot off the gas, I slow down, we want to go faster, we gonna put more gas through it. So it's the quality of the work we're doing. And the quantity measurements matter, situation Behavior, Impact and intent. I put that in there because it's about intent. Is the intent there? Do your team really think that we are doing this with their benefit in mind? Are we doing it in a way that helps? And how does it help communicate that don't be ashamed of waving the safety flag and go we actually do care. And here's why. Do it you deserve the credit, your organization deserves the credit the people who are doing the work, deserve that kind of credit. And speak up. One of the hardest items as a safety person that I've encountered in my career as working in anywhere as a consultant all the way through being just a first time safety specialist on night shift was the fact that there were times where it was like, Oh, do I really need to bring that up? Because that's gonna bring me more pain than this gonna be worth later. Do I really want to talk about that? Is it worth it? And then I go, Yeah, it is because I can't help but just step right into it. But you got to and so I encourage you to be brave with that. And to hold to your, I guess whatever you find is a core value. Hold on to that because that's important. Think about your leaders. Do you trust them? And do they have empathy? Because those two things go hand in hand. Hey, that's good. For the better scores we've seen, very nice. All right. So here we go. Engagement starts with safety. Z, Maslow before I love Maslow, he was the my entire PhD dissertation here was the basis of my entire dissertation. Here's the theory that brought me to where I am, for whatever that's worth. But I love the idea of making it simple. We as human beings, since the day of hunter gatherer, we have had only a few innate behavioral needs hard coded into our brain, Simon Sinek, even talks a little bit about this at times where it's this hard coded genetic piece that makes us human. The first one is simple. If we don't have food, water, shelter, nothing else matters. We are going to go after food, water and shelter, we're going to protect food, water and shelter. That's what we need. So think about the workplace is naturally providing food, water and shelter the workplace has provided it I have now money, that I can have a house, rent an apartment, eat, those things that I like to do is all because of my job. So most of the time, our team doesn't need to be reminded that they need to do their job to keep their job. That's about the 2% that we spend 80% of our time on. The next one is safety. Above food, water and shelter, our people need to feel safe. If they don't walk into your organization and think, Oh, I might die today. That's it. That's as far as you're getting on the behavioral scale, you're not moving from that. Or if they walk in and go, yep, probably going to get hurt on my wrist is going to kill me at the end of the day, my legs are gonna kill me, my back's gonna kill me. You're done. They're not getting beyond that behavioral need. It's hard coded. We're done. We, we won't progress anywhere else. Also, I like this, because when I show this to management now show this to supervision in my accountants, I go, they know they need to work, because they need to keep a job. What they don't know is that we care about this, too. That's what they don't know. And that's what they don't see. And this is what we got to help them see. The next one is, why do I not have teamwork. If you're in a supervisory role, why is my team not working together, they never work together. And then you walk out there. And it's like a danger zone mines of stuff waiting to be tripped over and fall over. You can't be a team until you feel safe. You can't want a steams was that one means you want congratulations, you want to be working on the business not in the business, you want to be success seeking not failure avoiding this is actually quite high up before we get to that part of it. So when we really get to where engagement will really help or where we're actually having functional engagement. We're not reaching into we're up here. So we have to build the safety. And that's just fundamental, hey, I don't think I'm going to die today. Up to hey, if you work together, you have a better chance of not getting hurt, you have a better chance of catching hazards, you have a better chance of having one voice. Finally, you're getting up here to where hey, you know what, I kind of like working here, I kind of enjoy what I'm doing. Let me help you get better. Let me tell you some ideas, that's gonna make your life better as the organization because I'm doing this every day. And I can make it better. The final one is where that self actualization where you're just like the independent, great problem solver. And the theory is that most people hardly ever reach that high, we're usually stuck somewhere around here. So that's where we want to be anyway, as the workforce, we want people who are actively looking for that esteem as part of their job. All this is showing is that if you if your organization has worked their way up the chain, and you suddenly decide new management, new culture, something changes, and your safety program takes a tank. Boom, it's instantaneous. You knock out the just like if you knock the foundation out of a house, it's not gonna stand long. You can take the roof off and replace it. You're not the foundation out, you don't have house anymore. Safety as the house. As far as your organization unless you close the only worst thing is closing the business. And that's the very bottom need. As long as the business is functioning in making money and is survivable. Safety is the next thing we have to have any of you do your metrics with safety, quality delivery costs, low four block and lean principle. When we talk about engagement, it's so funny how quickly we go to the well I'm engaging my team because I'm out there telling them to hit their productivity numbers. We got Product to Ship today. We got to get it done. The most human is say Safety, it's the s. So I'll play a little game with you. If I were to ask your supervision of safety, delivery and cost, what is the most important to your organization? If I was just not, I didn't want the truth answer. I was like in a big auditorium, what are they gonna shout at me? Safety, your safety, we're number one, safety is number one. If I were to then do my six sigma thing and go, you know, I'm gonna do a time study today, I'm gonna follow you around your site. And I'm gonna time you. And I'm going to categorize your eight hour shift into four categories safety, delivery, cost and quality. Where are the hours going to be? You told me safety's number one. So I'm going to assume that you're going to spend probably 30% on safety today. And they're going to look at me like I'm nuts. Every time, most of their time is probably going into delivery. And this is where a safety professionals, we have an opportunity to coach, because we know, we're not asking for them to give us everything. We're just asking to be something they think about today. Can we just have a little bit of your time, in the little bits of time, just like my friend John, did, he utilize those break periods and those lunches to get the most impact the most bang for his buck. And he did it day after day after day. He didn't have to invest 33%, four hours a day into safety. But what he had to do was make sure that when he interacted with safety, it was the right thing. It was something that was repeatable, and he was making action on it. We just did that. Plus I'm moving on, we got to keep going. One of the first items I like to teach any supervisor, just have a listen. The greatest thing and I'm I'm probably preaching to the choir here, you know this the greatest, the easiest answer for your safety problems and your productivity problems and your quality and cost problems is probably walking up to the person who does the job every day and go, Hey, how would you improve this today? And then you go, Hey, that's a great idea. Let me go do it. You would think that's rocket science, because it hardly ever happens. And I will say this is a safety coach. Sometimes you need to help the supervisor do that. You've got to almost like put your arm through it and go Hey, bud, I know you said you can't fix stupid, but let's go to let's talk to this guy one time. And just see if he does have maybe one good idea. I know, you tell me he's the dumbest guy that gets hurt all the time. But let's just see if he can give us one good idea today. And you walk out there and you get the one good idea. And you'll do it. And you help him your arm and arm you're helping him do it. Because you've got to show that the results can be there that the engagement matters. Because in his mind, he has been hard does years and years of doing whatever he's been doing has kept him solvent Lee employed, he is meeting his baseline need. He's not getting hurt. So he's, he's good. But it takes us to be that coach. And that's one of my, one of the hardest things that we have to do is to sometimes be that partner. Because for some reason they need. It's almost like they can lean on us a little bit that we can put our arm around, we know we're in this together. I'm going to help you. I'm going to make sure that we do this together. So when we actively listen, we have to make sure that whoever we're talking to is most important that time. I love Mr. Rogers. How many of you remember Mr. Rogers? Okay, thank you. That's good. One of his one of his things that he said when he was being interviewed that is that they would have to who's the most important person in your life? And he said, Well, the most important person right now to me, is you because me and you are talking so you're the most important person to me. Wow. I took five minutes and I talked to someone and I made them feel that they were the most special person in my life for five minutes. Wow. Engagement. Five minutes. It took us five minutes. And all I did was actively listen. Hardest thing in the world though. How many times is your phone go off when you're trying to do your work every day? How many times is your email Ding ding ding ding if you have one of these Apple watches like I do. My wrist is buzzing all day long. Sometimes I take it off because I can't stand it drives me crazy. But we're distracted. And we have to make sure that we educate and we teach and we coach that that engagement and if you want to create a safe environment we have to first listen how would you rate yourself as listener? Just curious. A lot depends on my mood Wow, well trained safety and human resources. You're the best. How many of you was that natural for you? Like you just came out of the womb and you're like man, I love listening to people. How many of you had like one learn it the hard way like I did, like you're sitting there like, oh my god, that person or you're not listening to me and I'm learning I'm probably not. You're right. Are you done? Exactly how many of you learned that the nod just go once we've got the the gathering of data, the next thing is to do it. This is the action. So execution requires a comprehensive understanding of the business, its people and environment. So that was a great book, it was a business book. But that's true about safety. And one of the ideas is that if we understand our business, we can make action from it. And there's no greater way of learning your business and safety because you've got to learn it all to understand the safety components. So when you set a goal for someone specific and timely, I can't emphasize that enough of how many times we give a supervisor a task and they're wanting to understand you. While I told you to do this, by this date, this we're writing it down really helps having a very well. I've used a whiteboard where I've written stuff on there and put a name on it, views, paper, TV screens, whatever it takes to make it visual. So they understand that they owe you something, and it's out there in public. Because safety should not have anything secret. There's no secret that we do, there's no trade trademark safety secret, I'm going to pull out of my pocket go nobody else can know this, it might save a life. No, I'm gonna share it be rigid, be very rigid. If you ever let one date slip, it just it's a slippery slope. Well, you know, needed a little extra time. You gotta have commitment, though, this goes back to your management commitment. If you're putting it out there. You've got to make sure they're going to commit to it. Now I have found one of the more interesting experiments that I have performed informally is do you guys use the Christmas tree? The red green, like red is bad green is good. It has become so programmed and managers to hate read that if you'll turn something read on them. They're just angry like a bull. So I would just make sure it was read like you owe me that. Oh, hate read and we'll fix it. Alright, all I do is read it and read. Yeah. Unbelievable. How how that worked. For me asking, asking, asking, finally I just write it on a whiteboard and read and go, You owe me that. No, you don't, I'm gonna get it done. And it's not all stick motivation. So you've heard carrot and stick. So if you don't do the job, I beat you. But if you're not, I'm gonna hold a carrot in front of you. Don't be the stick all the time. And don't let your supervisors be the stick. Oh, I'll just write him up. That'll teach them. Shame, blame, retrain every time boom, boom, boom. Is that engagement? No, that's just demoralizing. If you're doing that all sometimes you do have to be like, Hey, you do need some education here. But it's not that's not your default go to for root cause analysis. All right, all I can encourage you to do is do this boldly. Go Big. Don't be afraid. Try it. Try something. If you're looking to engage your team a little bit better. I really encourage you find a partner find someone that wants to do with you. Just like my friend John, that told the story about in the beginning. He came to the Safety Department said I need help. And I said, you know, what, are you willing to go big with me? He said, Yeah, I'll go big with you. I said, Let's go. Let's try something. It may be wrong. It may not work the first time but at least it's going to it's going to generate some talk, we're going to be talking about safety one way or the other. So I want to encourage you, when you make that leap, from no engagement to let's have some engagement, and you're using safety as that fulcrum. Because remember, safety is the most human of your people processes. So if you're gonna gain engagement, if you start with safety, you're starting with a core behavior. You're also starting with something that is just absolutely core to us as a human being. So it's important to start with safety. Go Big. Thank you so much. I do encourage you. I have a web page. I have LinkedIn. I love connecting with other safety people just because, you know, we need all the support we can get. We're all living the same fun times together. And I absolutely love connecting and just being a part of conversations. And if I can ever be a part of a conversation with you. I don't necessarily I'm not necessarily going to bill for all that I just enjoy. I just enjoy being part of the community. So please connect with me. I really do appreciate I do enjoy that. Thank you so much for choosing this one. I certainly appreciate your time. Thank you all for being here.